What the heck is a "cop killer bullet"?

Discussion in 'Rifle Talk' started by clayshooter25/25, Aug 4, 2005.

  1. clayshooter25/25

    clayshooter25/25 Well-Known Member

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    I keep hearing anti-gunners talk about these but I always thought most deer rifles were more powerful than the assault weapons they want to ban. After all the 223 is pretty weak but it is Hollywood that makes it look powerful. So what is the definition of a cop killer bullet?
     
  2. huntswithdogs

    huntswithdogs Moderator

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    I believe that they are referring to bullets that had a teflon coating on them.
     

  3. 1gsplover

    1gsplover Super Member

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    :? Yes, That's what I heard, too. The teflon makes the bullet become magical and allows it to penetrate body armor... NOT!!! :evil:
    ///olde 8) pharte///
     
  4. uglydog

    uglydog Super Member

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    "Cop killer" bullets were originally the KTW bullets which were designed to penetrate ballistic vests and barricades through the use of cores hardened with steel and even tungsten. These were to be sold only to law enforcement for times officers had to act against an "armored" suspect. This idea did not go far, after all who has time to determine if the suspect has body armor and load accordingly. Add to this the advent of tactical teams armed with rifles and this "need" pretty much went away. Later, it was discovered that some bullets coated with teflon allowed them to penetrate some of the lesser threat rated vests, especially with multiple hits. Improved materials allowing for better protection through tighter weaves and more layers mitigated this. Today this term applies to about any bullet the speaker is speaking against thought the most "damaging" bullets to flesh actually make ballistic vests more effective if hit.
     
  5. mike .308

    mike .308 Well-Known Member

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    A cop killer bullet is a bullet capable of penetrating police issued body armor.
     
  6. wired

    wired Super Member

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    Re: re: What the heck is a "cop killer bullet"?

    Which includes pretty much every halfway useful rifle cartridge.

    Mostly, it's more ignorant anti-gunner made-up-or-misused terminology like "assault weapons" A lot of it has to do with Hollywood, for sure. Anything can happen in Hollywood. A .22LR bullet sprayed with Teflon will go through 4 plates of inch-thick steel, a reasonably-strong man can hold and fire an 8-barrel gatling gun with his bare hands (because Uzi's on full-auto are childrens' playthings), an FBI agent should get rid of his "sissy gun" nickel-plated 1911 in .45ACP and get himself a Glock, 12-gauges can be fired accurately from the hip with a pistol grip stock, and the Desert Eagle .50 is God's gift to the professional hitman in all of us.
     
  7. Maser

    Maser Super Member

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    isnt a cop killer bullet also a steel bullet wit a copper jacket? or is that considered an armor piercing bullet which in my oppinion should be legal to own cuz from what iv heard is that the harder the bullet is the more accurate it is and u cant get much harder than a steel bullet :wink:
     
  8. The_Cook

    The_Cook Super Member

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    Most ranges don't allow steel jacketed or steel core bullets because they can cause sparks and the last thing they need is a fire on the range and getting shut down.

    Secondly do you really need an AP round for game hunting?

    Good old lead, or better yet if you want a really sweet bullet try out some of those BarnseX bullets they are solid copper.

    As a common citizen I don't think I'll ever need to use AP, HE, or any of the military rounds. Heck even if a 9.0 earthquake hits LA and it's complete bedlam, I don't think I'll be shooting at any armored targets. The ones in armor are prolly going to be friendly. And heck if nothing else there is always the face :wink:
     
  9. grimel

    grimel Well-Known Member

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    Re: re: What the heck is a "cop killer bullet"?

    What's your point?

    Okay, if you say so. BTW, the "cop killer" moniker if applied as anybody has stated will outlaw most any bottleneck and most straight wall rifles. If you have a 223 or better you HAVE body armor piercing ammo by default.
     
  10. The_Cook

    The_Cook Super Member

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    Very true about that, when I talk about AP rounds I'm talking about ones that were specifically built for that purpose. Bullets such as the hydroshock, Steel jacketed, Steel core, tungstun core, depleted uranium. My point still is do you really need anything more than Copper Jacketed to hunt? And the other aside from being in the military do you in your life actually expect to be shot at by heavily armored targets? If you do, you prolly messed up at some point in your life.
     
  11. Maser

    Maser Super Member

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    lol the best readily available cop killer cartridge has to be the .50 bmg n also u can take out a police helicopter with that cuz those types of helicopters aint armored :twisted:
     
  12. wired

    wired Super Member

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    Re: re: What the heck is a "cop killer bullet"?

    Don't even get us started on this subject :roll:
     
  13. grimel

    grimel Well-Known Member

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    Re: re: What the heck is a "cop killer bullet"?

    What does that have to do with anything?
     
  14. uglydog

    uglydog Super Member

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    Cook,
    For your information, Hydra-shocks are a a hollow point handgun bullet loaded by Federal Cartridge Corporation, not an armor piercing round. Steel jacketed rounds are mainly used by the military most often Eastern Bloc countries and are not much different than copper full metal jacketed rounds. These are not considered armor piercing as the steel used is quite soft as to not destroy the rifling in short order. Steel core rounds are indeed considered armor piercing by the military but as they are readily and cheaply available on the open market they make for good plinking ammo. These are not true "armor piercing" (unless you are talking about the 50 BMG) but instead are designed to penetrate light armor like that found in helmets, transport vehicles, and other lightly skinned targets. In the very heavy calibers, steel and tungsten cores are needed for deep penetration on the largest of game like elephant, rhino, and Cape buffalo as in many cases semi-jacketed bullets open up too quickly and do not have the penetration to reach deep into the massive and muscular bodies of these animals. As for depleted uranium, I believe that is a military only material and is not typically found in small arms ammunition.
    As for "copper jacketed" rounds, I take it you mean semi-jacketed bullets ending in a hollow or soft point as true full jacketed rounds are not legal for big game animals in most, if not all, states. They are allowed and used for small game (look at manny 22 rimfire rounds) and not uncommonly for varmints who's fur has value such as fox and coyote as they do not leave large wholes that need to be repaired before sale. There are many legitimate uses for these bullets you disparage; with a little more time and seasoning you may find the benefits of these rounds yourself.
     
  15. The_Cook

    The_Cook Super Member

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    Hydroshock not AP? then which bullet was it that appeared in like 1996-1998 that was made illegal to purchase within 2 weeks of release? I remember a big stink on the news about it. bleh oh well.
    Yes i do need more seasoning, and why would you shoot an elephant!? :shock: That's like fishing for dolphin..... :?

    I don't mean to pick a fight with ya luvsafari, but why elephant? Does it taste good? What do you do with all the meat? Do you have any recipies you can give me? And the friggin tenderloin on an elephant must be like 100-150lbs. :shock: Hey, how much does the tenderloin on an elephant weigh?

    But then again there is a part of me that wants to specialize in cooking endagered species... Monsoir.. would you care for a california condor omlete followed by a foigras and seaturtle pate wrapped in pastry dough, then roast of black rhino ajus with red potatoes asparagus and shaved truffles.

    Damnit... now I'm hungry
     
  16. uglydog

    uglydog Super Member

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    It's uglydog, not Luv2safari you should be addressing. The bullet you are thinking of is the Winchester Black Talon and it is available under a different name without the black coating on the bullet. The law enforcemetn version is called Ranger and I am not sure what the civilian version is called. The bullet itself is the same as any other hollow point designed for self defense and you can consider yourself fooled by the hype of an unknowing/uncaring media. These are not any more likely to penetrate a ballistic vest than other hollow point pistol rounds, maybe even less so as they are designed to mushroom easily.
    As for shooting and cooking elephants, they are quite tasty, even the jerky isn't bad. I haven't shot an elephant nor do I currently have an inclination to do so but what I've been told by those who have is the natives "own" the elephant and make good use of the meat. The description I have is a couple of semis appear after the shot, one is a crane and the other is a refrigerated unit. The elephant is dressed and processed right there in the field for consumption by the local populace. The ivory is also owned by the locals and sold on the open market. The hunter pays a trophy fee which goes to various parties. The value of an elephant is what keeps them alive in many areas; if there is no legal value then poaching for the ivory is the only value and all the rest of the elephant goes to waste. A prime example is Kenya for the latter. Poaching has nearly eliminated elephants since the cessation of legal hunting in that country. As the hunting of elephants is still permitted and the removal of them due to hazard or over population is also necessary, bullets of proper construction are still needed.
    As for fishing for dolphin, it is great sport and they are very tasty. They are a bread and butter fish when we fish the oceans and I am looking forward to catching a few this winter and having them for dinner. There is nothing like fresh caught El Dorado or Mahi- Mahi (or were you thinking of the mammal? That's just plain sick).
    I guess what I'm saying is though you may not see a need for a type of bullet does not mean there is no use for it. A little tolerance and consideration will get one a lot further than reckless condemnation.
     
  17. The_Cook

    The_Cook Super Member

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    My appologies Luvsafari it was uglydog to which my comments are directed. Understanding and consideration can only go so far, sometimes one has to draw a line in the sand and stand for what is right and just. :D On one side you have the kind gentle hunters that have a live and let live attitude much like sportfisherman who believe in catch and release hunting elephants with tranc. darts and ear tags. On the other side you have the unclan who wander the african plains who gather round the elephant family with a pocket full of shells.

    Honestly ugly dog, partly my feeling towards shooting elephants are true. I think "shooting elephants is like fishing for dolphin" and on the other hand it's not one of those hot button issues. Just a small quirk. So please don't take my comments to personally I'm just razzing you alittle :D

    By the by thanks for the info on the Winchester ammo. Found those news articles online after you popped in the name. Amazing what the media is allowed to get away with. :evil:
     
  18. Maser

    Maser Super Member

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    i think a .700 nitro express would do the job of killing an elephant easily :wink:

    also hey ugly dog u said that its illegal to use fully jacketed bullets to hunt with then what bout the 12 gauge hydro shok sabot slug thats solid copper?
     
  19. grimel

    grimel Well-Known Member

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    Re: re: What the heck is a "cop killer bullet"?

    Only because people have the "it doesn't affect me so I dont' care" attitude.

    Too many people think the 2nd am is about sports and hunting, thus, letting such drivel pass unabated.
     
  20. grimel

    grimel Well-Known Member

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    Re: re: What the heck is a "cop killer bullet"?

    Different animal. FMJ is different than a solid copper (see also Barnes X bullets). Yet ANOTHER reason to stop these stupid non-effective laws impeding 2nd Am rights.