.375 Hoffman

Discussion in 'Medium Bore' started by 1gsplover, Jan 20, 2008.

  1. 1gsplover

    1gsplover Super Member

    426
    0
    0
    In the book "East of the Sun and West of the Moon", (pub. 1926), the Roosevelt boys Kermit and Theodore are said to have taken .375 Hoffman rifles on their trip to central Asia.
    Anybody have any dope on that cartridge?
    Which modern load would most closely duplicate its ballistics?
    Thanks,
    ///olde 8) pharte///
     
  2. uglydog

    uglydog Super Member

    1,427
    0
    0
    They are likely using a 375 H&H mag in a gun imported or possibly made by the Hoffman Arms Co. of Cleveland, Ohio I think it was. The only Hoffman cartridge I can think of came out in the 1980s and was in .416 caliber and would be a bit too late to have been used on that particular trip.
     

  3. luv2safari

    luv2safari Moderator

    1,875
    0
    0
    Dog got it right. Hoffman also loaded ammo for the 375 H&H rifles they sold and sold a lot of the lighter 235gr ammo during the early birth of the "Velocity Means Everything" age in the late 40's and early 50's.
     
  4. Wyo. Coyote Hunter

    Wyo. Coyote Hunter Super Member

    1,128
    0
    0
    :D Uglydog and L2S, I have read of the Hoffman Arms Co. and saw Elmers .404 in the collection on display in Idaho. I am sure you have the skinny on the .375 by Hoffman, but I do remember Elmer saying there was a 300 Hoffman with a sharp shoulder. From what he said, it was not the H & H. I do not know if they had a special .375 or not. Have either of you hear of the .300 :?: :?:
     
  5. luv2safari

    luv2safari Moderator

    1,875
    0
    0
    Haz,

    They probably did an "improved" version in later years, as they were around during the era of Weatherby, Saturn, and those guys.
     
  6. Wyo. Coyote Hunter

    Wyo. Coyote Hunter Super Member

    1,128
    0
    0
    :lol: L2S, The .300 Elmer mentioned was a sharpshouldered one he used in 1926 for a caribou in B.C. :? This doesn't really matter I guess, but all this information is quite interesting. I didn't realize Hoffman lasted as long as they did. :?
     
  7. MacD37

    MacD37 Well-Known Member

    103
    0
    0
    I can find nothing by that name (375 Hoffman) in my records,but that is not to say it doesn't or didn't exist! I have a feeling the one ELMER used was most likely a 375 Improveds,or one of those other improved cartridges, done long before George Hoffman designed the 416 Hoffman.

    Lets be clear for the youngsters here, the Hoffman, you are speaking of, had nothing to do with the cartridge called the 416 Hoffman. That was also an improved 375 case necked to 416, and was only developed in around 1978 by George Hoffman, the American PH who hunted with clients in Tanzania, Zimbabwe, and Botswana. It was the fore runner of the factory 416 Rem Mag.

    George Hoffman died about four yrs ago, in a hospital in San Angalo, Texas, of prostate cancer. He was a friend of mine, and fine man. He wrote a book called COUNTRY BOY IN AFRICA and I have a signed copy he signed only one week before he died! I never heard of a 375 Hoffman before, and I'm sure it had nothing to do with george, because he was younger tham me, and wasn't born in 1926!
     
  8. Wyo. Coyote Hunter

    Wyo. Coyote Hunter Super Member

    1,128
    0
    0
    Mac, When I read the stuff when Elmer mentioned the 375 Hoffman, I got the impression that it might have been a Hoffman made 375 H & H. While he did mention that the 300 by Hoffman was a sharp shouldered one; clearly different from the H & H. Right now I could not put my finger on the information on this, but that is how I have seen this since reading the article or book years ago. :wink:
     
  9. uglydog

    uglydog Super Member

    1,427
    0
    0
    My best guess would be a Hoffman rifle chambered for some type of "improved" 300 H&H round. Being a wildcat, there may not have even been a name for the round at the time and for reference it was just called the "300 Hoffman" for the parent cartridge and gun manufacturer. In my manual of cartridge conversions, there are at least 6 wildcats based off the 300 H&H, all of which have a sharper than factory shoulder. The date of introduction is missing on all of them so unfortunately there is no way of determining if they were what Elmer tried.
     
  10. MacD37

    MacD37 Well-Known Member

    103
    0
    0
    YEH U-Dog, the manual was the first place I looked, and I have some pritty old C.O.W. books as well, and i can find no listing of any 375 cartridge with the name Hoffman.

    Back in the 20s, and 30s there was a new wildcat evry week, so it is no suprize! :lol:
     
  11. 1gsplover

    1gsplover Super Member

    426
    0
    0
    Rereading some old O'Connor stuff and found some references to Hoffman and particularly to Hoffman's custom building .375 H&H rifles. Old Jack wrote a lengthy chapter on the .375 H&H... seems he would consider it a suitable caliber for the one-gun safari.
    All that aside, Jack O'Connor sure could put you right in the action with his writing. A very talented man, hey?
    ///old :D pharte///
     
  12. Wyo. Coyote Hunter

    Wyo. Coyote Hunter Super Member

    1,128
    0
    0
    :lol: 1gs, Jack, was a talented writer, infact he taught at several Universities before landing the Job at Outdoor life. but he wasn't my favorite writer.
     
  13. 1gsplover

    1gsplover Super Member

    426
    0
    0
    Not my favorite, either. For entertainment with :) thrills and spills :( , I prefer old Jim Corbett first, followed by Capstick and Bell in a dead heat for second place. Robert Ruark was really good til he got New-York-ified. Anyways, they are in the Happy Hunting Ground of our memories now, and I hope they are enjoying it. :D
    shoot safe.
    ///olde :roll: buzzard///
     
  14. flygas

    flygas New Member

    1
    0
    0
    Those who speculated it was the .375 Holland and Holland are correct. Hoffman Arms, in most cases, called the calibers by their (Hoffman's) own name but the only proprietary cartridges they actually had were the .300 Hoffman and the .276 Dubiel (named after employee John Dubiel, who also worked for Winchester). Most of their .375 rifles were either marked .375 Hoffman or .375 Magnum (or just .375 Mag.), but all were actually the Holland and Holland standard caliber of 1912. They built quite a few .300 Hoffman rifles and Elmer Keith was apparently a fan. It was, in fact, a sharp-shouldered case and is obsolete now. Original Hoffman retailed ammo, loaded by Western and packaged with the Hoffman Arms label on the box and Hoffman-stamped brass, is actually more rare than the rifles themselves. I recently found (lucked onto, really) four full boxes after searching for years. I've had five Hoffman Arms rifles chambered for the .300 Hoffman and still own two, but had never had any original ammo.

    I'm glad to see discussion on Hoffman Arms. Too few people remember this fine custom builder. It's a shame, too, as I think they were the finest rifles ever built in the US, with Griffin and Howe their only real competition.
     
  15. luv2safari

    luv2safari Moderator

    1,875
    0
    0
    fly...

    WELCOME! :D

    ...and thanks for the input to all our speculation and snippits of knowledge regarding this maker.

    Stick around. :wink:
     
  16. Wyo. Coyote Hunter

    Wyo. Coyote Hunter Super Member

    1,128
    0
    0
    :D flygas, I read of Elmer's .300 Hoffman. He described it as a sharpshouldered case. I didn't know they had ammo loaded for it. Saw Elmer's .404 in the Boise Cabela's. They look like beautiful rifles. Thanks for the information. :wink:
     
  17. Stonewall

    Stonewall New Member

    2
    0
    0
    I just bought one .375 Hoffman Magnum and one .300 Hoffman Mag Western cartridges at a gun show today.

    Glenn
     
  18. Stonewall

    Stonewall New Member

    2
    0
    0
    In doing some research on Hoffman ammunition I found these excellent photos at The Hallowell & Co. Historical Gallery.

    Hoffman Arms, Ardmore, Oklahoma.
    Magnum Mauser Squarebridge
    Engraved by Rudolph Kornbrath
    .375 H&H Magnum

    http://www.hallowellco.com/hoffman_arms 284 375.htm

    Enjoy !

    Glenn