Featured 12GA FH to 700HE--Hairy rifle/shotguns-

Discussion in 'Rifle Talk' started by hubel458, Jul 6, 2008.

  1. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here is picture the CBC 20ga FH setup
    by mono-blocking a heavy 20 ga barrel
    into a CBC 12ga breech section.The 20 heavy
    barrel is threaded into the mono-block made
    by cutting off 12ga barrel. These CBC actions
    are taller and wider than other break actions
    and the locking lug block works better and
    nicer than other break actions.Also shown
    is 20ga 3.5" plastic and brass cases.
    Second picture is PH action with port lengthened
    for 585HSM, shown in action. I also have second
    change barrel for 700HE long case for this action.
    Imagine over 20,000 ft lbs in a PH, for 700HE.
    Also shown behind is a PH with 700H 3.25"..Ed
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  2. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here are some 20ga slugs/sabots we rigged up.
    I traded for whole box(hundreds) of 20ga Hammerhead
    slugs, in the picture. They had pulled slugs
    out of the locked on plastic base, so I glue them
    back in so base stays for fair smoothbore accuracy.
    And I also glued in various 458 bullets, as shown,
    which fit tight in cup, up to 500gr. They discard
    on impact. Fair accuracy at 50-70 yds. Less expensive
    shooting as I have pile of hard lead 458 slugs.

    Idea on 8ga FH. Looked at a TCR87 break action 10ga
    and the breach mono-block can take a little bigger
    barrel.If I find one I can afford(pricey) I'll do 8ga.
    These are very strong actions, a little smaller version
    of the action setup Colin put the 2bore in.
    Just put in straight 8ga bull barrel like NEF Ultra.ED

    [​IMG]
     

  3. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here is picture of the 4bore in a more finished look.
    Second picture is closeup of cases and 1520 gr
    hollowbase hard slugs. The 4bore is smooth bore so
    hollowbase slugs are used. I set up gun with
    smoothbore as that saved large amount of time and
    money on the barrel. Ed

    [​IMG]

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  4. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    I found a few long brass 8ga cases to go with
    the 3.3" plastic ones. They are an inch longer
    and made by RMC. The 8ga barrel I'm putting
    on a falling block will have the chamber long
    so I can use both lengths of cases.
    The plastic ones are from 8ga kiln cases with base
    swaged a little and has shotgun primers, The
    long brass has shotgun primers.
    I use Fed 239 shotgun primers.Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  5. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    The long brass 8ga cases have same thick
    sides as plastic cases. And there are long
    plastic/paper cases out there, but they
    are scarce. Thick sides mean a good chamber
    fit, so as to minimize case expansion and make sizing
    easier. Here is picture 8ga and 10ga fullbore slugs with
    locked on basewads that I setup. Wads held on by
    screws and slugs hollowbase as well, so to work in
    smooth barrels with some accuracy. 8ga is 1100gr.
    10ga is 900 gr.Ed
    [​IMG]
     
  6. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    New super strong 12ga bolt gun just out, Savage 212, taking
    over for the 210. You know I did my first 12ga FH in a 210 and
    have posted that sometime I'd like to get a thicker walled
    reciever built to have more strength and safety.
    Well Savage helped us out.

    Its reciever is 1.5" diameter, where the 210 was 1.36" dia.
    I has a large .900" diameter bolt, where the 210 had regular
    110 bolt inside bolt carrier. It has a fitted bolt head like 210
    and other Savage 110-116 rifles. Only its bolt head has two lugs
    where the 210 had 3 lugs. Its two lugs about 90% strength as
    the 210s 3 lugs.Its about 12% stronger lugs than Enfield and
    Rugers. Also it appears the bolt raceways are not through the
    barrel thread area so about 50% stronger barrel connection.

    Price not too bad 500-550. I'll try to find one later to do some
    hairy cartridges in. It has a 3" 12ga chamber from factory and
    detachable magazine. Probably can have mag and port lengthened
    and feed ok, with 3.5" 12ga and the 700H 3.25". More info
    as I find out stuff.Picture from auction-e.Thanks to
    Bob in OR for info.Ed
    [​IMG]
     
  7. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Some more info on the Savage 212. I looked at one,
    got more measurements. The port is 3.812" long.
    Can be made longer. Bolt travel is 4.625" and can be .50"
    longer. And with full diameter bolt can have extra
    lugs in back. The Mag box has room for extra length in
    front of it and behind it. It could work for 12ga FH
    and 700HE long case.

    A fellow on Gunsmithing forum found a way to make
    jacketed slugs using copper tubing caps, the solder ones,
    by putting them in a die and using a shaped punch to form
    a round nose copper jacket, that can be filled with lead.
    He made .700 cal ones, different dies/punchs could
    be made .729, 12ga size. I got a few here and going to see
    what is possible. I got bigger caps also to see about 4ga
    and 8ga ones. Here is picture of the CBC break action with
    the 20ga heavy barrel mono-blocked in, with action open.Ed
    [​IMG]
     
  8. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Would have posted back quicker but computer
    hookup down for afew days..
    Here is picture of 16GA FH I mentioned earlier doing in
    an Enfield bolt gun. Got 630gr slug 2400, compared to
    the first 16GA FH in thin barrel break action at 1600.
    I use 630 gr full bore slugs and the 385gr SPW
    saboted with locked on bases.

    Opened port and changed bolt stop on Enfiels action. Reamed
    front so case fit through action into barrel and added extra
    rear lugs. Same process that is used to do Enfield
    bolt action in my 700H 3.25.
    I got some of the work done on 8ga in my falling
    block design, like the 4ga I've done pictured earlier.
    Will get pictures posted later..Ed
    [​IMG]
     
  9. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Experimenting for fellows trying to get speed with heavier sabot slugs than
    the lightweight saboted 4-500 gr kind of slugs, in 2 5/8" length brass
    cases for where length is limited..

    Using 770 gr sabot slugs with locked on base, by US-S.
    These are long sabot slugs due being brass and locked on base.
    Real hard to do with these due to lack of powder space for the RE17
    and IMR 4759-4227 that I like to use. With 770 gr and 60gr 4759 got 1450 fps.
    With 75gr Re17 about 1350 fps. Both of these all case will hold under sabot.

    For contrast using full bore 730 gr Dixie with just seals under it, much more
    powder room, with 95gr 4759 getting 1800 plus and 130 gr RE17 1700 fps.
    I went to faster powder, my slowest shotgun powder, Alliant steel, to try to get
    speed like full bore slugs get.

    These listed are max loads before brass cases expanded to much and started
    sticking, due to sharp expansion step, where the base goes to the side with a
    real small inside radius on this particular RMC brass case.
    47gr Steel,and 770 gr slug 1400 fps.

    So I tried the 570 gr US-S with 53gr Steel,and got 1700 fps. Same slug with
    65gr 4759 got 1650. You can put in more Steel but cases stick more.They won't
    blow up, just stick. And cases expanded that way are hard to resize.

    The first 3" brass I got years ago, same problem with
    a sharp step expanding above the base. So when I had 3.5" brass made
    I had them do a long inside radius from base to the sides. These with extra
    room for powder and cushion are much less problem. I think where you have
    to use shorter cases, you can use plastic, as a 3" plastic is 2 5/8"
    when crimped and will do the same and only be 20 cents or so new.Ed
     
  10. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here is picture of a big bolt action a fellow on Homegunsmith
    built to put big cases in, for his own use. It is of better looks,
    quality than most other single shot actions, of that style being
    built by others for sale. And that is absolute
    sexiest bolt handle.
    Also the fellow made a recess type of die and shaped punch
    to make large caliber, copper bullet jackets, from plumbing
    copper caps, and then put melted lead into them from
    the back. He uses a big hammer, works great.
    I got a few different sizes of caps and they are
    perfect for bullet jackets. Right from hardware or plumber
    supply places. ED
    [​IMG]
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  11. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Answering questions; bullet jackets from copper tubing
    caps. This process makes jacketed slug with covered
    nose. With heavy soft jacket as opposed to a
    solid turned slug from solid rod or soft lead slug.

    1/2" caps can make .700 and 12ga size jackets.
    5/8" caps can do 8ga and maybe 10ga jkts.
    And 3/4" caps can make 4ga. These cups are
    malleable enough to shape into jackets,
    without a 20 ton stamping press.

    Interesting info about our posting of this subject on
    about 5 dozen forums. One big general forum thread,
    that we posted some info, has about 5 million views.It is
    Mil Photo Forum a big world wide forum..
    The top forum of the bunch, with whole thread on it
    about 120,000 views, 2nd about 110,000 views, 3rd one
    about 104,000 views, 4th one about 102,00 views.
    We greatly appreciate all the interest from all
    the forums, of all sizes. And all the help
    and ideas too...Ed
     
  12. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    You know of the 4 bore we did on falling block,
    with its 1 inch bore.Using turned cases and cases
    made from 20mm brass. Our cases have a rim and
    straight sides. A smith in the EU made a 1 inch bore
    gun on a bolt action, using 20mm brass expanded
    to take 1 inch bullets. His case has a shoulder to
    head space on. It is called the Inch Gun by some.
    It is a really nice looking gun, with great
    craftsmanship.Ed
    [​IMG]
     
  13. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here is picture of the 8ga falling block we are working
    on, partly done. It is built like the 4bore one in a
    one piece stock. IT is built .150" narrower than 4bore.
    We used the heavy 8ga barrel that I first
    put in the Enfield bolt gun for a 8ga testing. The breech
    block, linkage, lever, pivot is done, as you can see
    in picture with lever open and breech down.
    I have got to chamber, put in firing pin, do
    hammer and trigger. 8ga gun in 1st picture.

    Hammer and trigger setup is now mounted and moves
    on the back of the breech block on an extension.
    I also made this change first on 4bore, 2nd pic.
    It uses NEF hammer and spring and Stevens trigger.
    Breech block set up same as 4bore just narrower.
    Later hope to do a 2 bore and same setup only
    breech and action a little wider.Ed

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  14. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here picture of the 8ga from back. This action will also
    do 12ga FH, 10ga, 700HE, 600NE,50BMG,etc. The breech
    block in this and the 4bore are 1 inch thick front to back,
    with the width different. The bottom of block is same on all
    and uses same linkage and lever; same hammer and trigger.
    The 4bore one will do 20mm, as that is what I make
    the 4bore brass from. When I do 2bore, breech block will use
    same design, but just be wider on the top of the block.
    The recoil pads are over 2" thick. I made the stock
    from a 2.5" thick blank......mostly by hand.

    This action will hold much more pressure that the heavy
    built plastic 8ga cases can take , and they are good
    to over 20,000 psi. Like a 1000gr at 2500.Ed
    [​IMG]
     
  15. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Guys wanted more particulars of Hubel FB..
    Here is picture, empty falling block receiver
    from the top...2nd a side view of the breech
    block with back extensions, with hammer and
    trigger. Hammer has safety cocking notch.
    The lever, not shown, connects to linkage up
    inside the two bottom extensions.Ed
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  16. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    A fellow in Texas picked up a Tula-Toz 4bore
    pump gun like Big Al has. He is getting some
    of the 3 inch brass 4ga cases from RMC.
    RMC still has them if anyone needs them.
    That gun takes a short 4ga case, either brass
    or plastic if you can find them.This 4 gauge
    is a .938 inch bore, smaller than our 1 inch one.
    Pic is Al's gun.Bolt has 4 locking lugs...ED
    [​IMG]
     
  17. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here are pictures of the Falling Block breech block.
    Front and side rear view....Notice the integral bottom
    extensions are narrower than the top. These are
    what the linkage is inside of and when breech is
    levered down these fit though the slot in the stock.
    And being narrower the slot isn't too wide so the
    stock has enough strength. Bottom extensions same
    width for all action sizes.Just top different
    for the size of action needed for big cartridges.
    This breech is little rough as it has had a dozen
    changes to it. But it holds a load in 4 bore
    of 1500gr over 2600.Ed
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  18. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Some more slug ideas--First picture of 10ga 830gr
    hollow base slug in 8ga wad cup, And 690gr hollowbase
    69 caliber Dixie Gunworks slug that I swaged down a
    little, in a 12ga wad cup.
    2nd picture is the a new offering from the EU,a
    new 300gr US-S slug with locked on base, discarding
    petals, by European Cartridge. Accurate in smooth bores.
    In 3" plastic they load to over 2100 with shotgun
    powders. In a 3.5" plastic and our slower powders
    I could get over 2800. Ed
    [​IMG]
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  19. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    That US-S pointed slug with discarding petals,
    and locked on base, shown above is called the
    Swift 12. And correction on the weight, it is 320 gr.
    And they plan on testing and maybe supplying 3.5"
    versions, planning on getting around 2500 fps with
    shotgun powders. I know in our 3.85" case in the long
    barrel Savage, I could get over 3000 with big amounts
    of our slower powders we load with.

    Bought some tubing caps And here is picture
    of those copper tubing caps, you can make bullet
    jackets out of, and fill with lead. In picture you see
    a rough one I formed with punch, and with a die they be
    perfectly formed. And with right die they could be
    formed with round nose with edge step for perfect roll
    crimping in plastic. And on the right see big caps that
    would do 4 bore.There are caps between the two sizes
    that would do 8ga...Ed
    [​IMG]
     
  20. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    More 12gs slug/sabot info-- About discarding sabots.
    Most factories making sabot slugs make them relatively light,
    300 to 350 grains, and that is why they are on average
    more accurate than what guys try to reload with heavier
    slugs in the sabots. Reason is light slugs don't damage
    the sabot, while they are trying for high velocity.
    Example is picture of Hornady SST sabot and it only has
    a one way plastic seal over powder, and a hard
    rubber cushion inside the sabot under the 300gr jkt
    spitzer style slug. Many 12ga hunters say these are
    the most accurate.

    Another slug idea is a blunt nose jacketed slug of
    675gr I made from one of RG's hollow point jkt slugs.
    I cut part of jacket off of the front and swaged
    it over to make blunt nose. These are for the guys
    trying to make short loaded brass case rounds
    in 2.5" brass and 2.62" brass to be no more than
    2.75" overall to work in certain guns. it is
    on left, 2nd pic. And gets good velocity with just
    good BPGS seals under it and slower powder.
    On right is US-S sabot with discarding petals, locked
    on base we tried in short brass case, and can't, due
    to length of sabot get in enough powder to get
    the higher velocity with heavy 700gr US-S slug, the
    guys want to get.....ED
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