Featured 12GA FH to 700HE--Hairy rifle/shotguns-

Discussion in 'Rifle Talk' started by hubel458, Jul 6, 2008.

  1. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Fired the 4bore with the 760 gr round ball,
    which is a hard rubber coated steel ball,
    thus the light weight compared to lead,
    using 100gr of Blue Dot under 300gr RE17,
    total 400gr. Hairy load, with 3500 fps, and
    20,000 ft lbs. Used the turned 4bore cases,
    with shotgun primers, and with that light
    projectile case doesn't need sizing. This is
    good beginning bullet weight for early testing.
    I am gonna do 1200gr and 1600gr holding the
    speeds to give about same energy.
    I won't load heavier until I get another
    stock like one I have that is full width.
    Also those who want 3.5" 20ga brass cases,
    Rocky Mtn Cartridge is making them now.ED
     
  2. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Tested 4bore with a double ball load of 1250 grains weight,
    Used 100gr Blue Dot under 250gr of RE17, with card and
    one fiber wad. 2600 fps. Recoil not bad, just brisk.
    Used turned brass cases with shotgun primer, and cases
    still didn't expand base. just size top..
    Running about 23-25,000 psi.
    The light ball load in above post
    about 16,000 psi.. Ed
     

  3. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Some interesting shooting with 4bore.

    Double 760gr ball load of 1520 gr total, at 2300 fps.

    A buck and ball load, 6 45cal lead balls, 133gr each,
    and a 760 gr ball on top, 1560 gr total, at 2300 fps.

    Both loads 100gr BlueDot under 225gr Re17, In the
    turned brass cases, with shotgun primer.Recoil
    manageable, and like a big push. The sound isn't
    a boom like regular shotguns, but cracks loud
    like big bore rifles,at least twice as as loud.Ed
     
  4. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    I got my 20ga FH 3.5" brass cases from RMC.
    The case capacity in water is 234 gr.
    It holds 215 gr of dense ball powder to the
    base of 490gr 20ga hard lead slugs I have.
    These cases use a 209Mag shotgun primer, and
    I have mouth ID set up for .620 slugs as the slugs
    and sabots I have are that size. These cases will
    work good out to 35,000 psi, without extreme
    expansion or resizing problems. Load of slow powder
    will get 490 gr to 2500 plus at 25-27,000 psi,
    6800 ft lbs, using the 30" barrel I'm getting to
    put on the FBW Model L falling block.
    ! also have a case of the 3.5" factory Hastings
    SPW, locked on sabot, loaded rounds to use.Ed
     
  5. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Here is pic of the RMC brass 20ga 3.5" with
    Hastings 3.5" factory plastic case loads,
    and 20ga Hollywood dies. Also slugs, Dixie 490 gr,
    Hastings SPW and 900gr jacketed in the one case.

    Second pic is the FBW Model L setup that will have
    20ga 3.5" chambered barrel in a second one. This 1st
    one is in my 585HE.It is falling block in one piece
    thumbhole stock, an idea I come up with on my
    4bore falling block. Second Model L will be built same
    in 3.5" 20ga. Ed

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  6. jcwat

    jcwat Super Member

    376
    0
    0
    not trying to bust anyones bubble, but what are you trying to acomplish??? i admire your gunsmithing skills, and commend them, but would it not be alot cheaper to just use a .458win/lott???? or custum loaded 12 guage(3.5")
     
  7. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Well the falling blocks are only half as much as
    factory 458 Lott Ruger or CZ , or Win.
    .And we have tested and developed
    real strong loads for 3.5" 12ga stuff.Ed
     
  8. jcwat

    jcwat Super Member

    376
    0
    0
    high prices do drive invention. ever thought about just rebarreling a .338wm/.300rum to .458lott/wm?? since you are doing the work, cost should be around $1200-$1500. way cheaper than factory stuff.
     
  9. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    I already have my wildcat 458 much bigger than a
    Lott or Weatherby. But still had to go bigger so
    I can see the holes in stuff easier.Ed
     
  10. jcwat

    jcwat Super Member

    376
    0
    0
    there's nothing wrong with putting bigger holes in things
     
  11. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Transition, biggest to a smaller, in
    putting falling block actions in one piece stocks.
    First one was the 4bore, the big one in
    picture and after it was done I got a FBW falling block
    and soon figured out I could do the same with it.
    It is chambered in my 585HE cartridge.
    And it is pictured above with the cases.
    I built the 4bore, from blocks of steel.
    The FBW is the Model L, and I'm doing second one
    in 3.5" 20ga, to use brass and plastic cases.
    And maybe later on when I find extra 700 barrel
    we'll do my long 700HE in FBW....Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  12. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Here is picture of FBW Model L in one piece stock,
    compared to a FBW Model S in 2 piece stock.
    Both are chambered in my 585HE.
    These two plus the Wickcliff 76 and Ruger #1
    will easily handle my 585HE with proper
    weight and thick pads. These guns have
    rimless extractors and my 585HE goes in and
    out with least amount of metal removal from
    the feed trough, with much more power.
    The Model L will have a 3.5" chambered 20ga
    barrel to use 3.5" MRC brass cases and
    Hastings factory or reloaded plastic cases.Also
    I'm working to put a Wickcliff in 1 piece stock.Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  13. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Here is picture of a bolt action a fella on Practical
    Machinist built for an 8ga. 4 rear bolt lugs.Singleshot.
    He used section of 20mm barrel for barrel.. Real nice.
    Idea would do for 10 and 12ga also I think.
    Has an aimpoint sight. Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  14. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Here is picture of the fella firing his bolt
    action 8ga that he made. He uses the
    super strong, heavy duty, plastic cases
    like we are using in the ones we made by
    boring out NEFs to 8ga.Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  15. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Some have asked if the guy who made above
    bolt action 8ga does them for others, no he only
    did one for himself, and isn't a manufacturer.

    Here is picture of a cast .504" slug BPI 12ga sabot
    a guy made a few for me and it has good accuracy with
    our slower powder loads, with the sabot working ok.
    Slug is 440 gr and hard alloy cast with decent
    meplat for good penetration.But it isn't too blunt
    so it has good longer range capabilities when you
    get the speed behind it. Soon be the deer season and
    guys are still hunting for their ideal 12ga sabot/slug
    setup for loading their own.BPI is supposed to have
    a new sabot this year..Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  16. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    The .504" lead slug I show for using in 12ga sabots is
    one cast for using in .500" cases like my 499HE, by
    sizing it after casting. Tried it at the .504" diameter and
    it works in the sabot also. So it does double duty,
    unsized 12ga sabot, sized and lubed in .500" use.

    Some like short cases in big calibers, and have put up
    various ideas. First picture is 12ga brass cases, two
    2" long and other 2.25". Cases made by shortening
    our cases we made by putting rims on bmg brass.
    These can be used in Savage 210 and feed from mag
    box. Can use 2.5" Magtech brass shortened so case
    and protruding slug will be 2.7" overall and feed from
    magazines of Savage & Mossy bolt guns. With 2.25" case
    you can get 600gr to 1800 at least.Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  17. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Have had a bunch of different guys shooting
    the 4bore with light 11,000 ft lb loads.
    All say it is a tremendous thrill.
    Simply the greatest shooting ever.

    So many have opinions on what is a real big bore.
    I think really big starts at .585........
    So in that vein I have made the 585 Hubel
    Super Magnum, 585 HSE, giving a nod to necked
    cases.Also can make the 620 HSE for 600 guys.
    This is my only wildcat base case with a neck.
    Base and rim are .750", shoulder is .720".
    and case is 3.7" long. Power in the range of
    14,000 to 17,000 ft lbs. Can be used single shot
    in the PH, the Savage 210, the Enfield. Not for
    mass production by me, cases too hard to make.
    An experiment with necked cases.
    Picture of the case later.Ed
     
  18. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    20 gauge-- Fired factory 3.5" plastic cased Hastings 395 gr
    locked on sabot slug in 20ga with 30 inch barrel and
    got 1900 plus fps. Same sabot slug in RMC 3.5" brass case
    with shotgun primer, got 2500 fps. Case bases didn't
    expand. Load of 150gr RE17 slow enough getting to
    peak pressures is easy on cases. Dies work with
    both case types.Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  19. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Some more 20ga- 490gr slug in RMC 3.5" brass case
    with shotgun primer, got 2400+ fps. Cases very slight
    base expansion. About .001" above base.
    Load of 180gr RE17, shotgun primer.Ed

    Got asked about the Taylor KO factor, some of our
    cases.Max loads for my guns/cases combos.Ed

    4bore in my falling block-- 1600gr at 2500 - 571 KO
    700HE in my bolt gun----- 1000gr at 3200- 457 KO
    12GA FH in my Savage----1000gr at 2500- 357 KO
    585HE in my bolt gun------750gr at 2800-- 300 KO
    577 trex comparison-------750gr at 2600--278 KO
    700NE comparison --------1000gr at 2000- 295 KO
     
  20. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    20ga testing- 600gr slug in RMC 3.5" brass case
    with shotgun primer, 2300 fps. Very slight
    case expansion above base.
    Another load style- 12 number 1 buckshot,
    about 510 gr worth, 2000. Glued a 20ga
    card in the brass case over the shot.
    Few more guys coming, having fun
    shooting the 4bore this summer. Ed