Featured 12GA FH to 700HE--Hairy rifle/shotguns-

Discussion in 'Rifle Talk' started by hubel458, Jul 6, 2008.

  1. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here is picture of the FBW falling block with my
    700HE long case in it.This falling block is 1.5"
    wide, with a 1.125" wide breach block.
    The sides are .187" thick next to breach block.
    This compares to about .165" say for a Browning
    B-87, Win copy. The feed trough would work with
    12ga size rim if some work was done on the top
    of the hammer. This has a barrel thread length of
    1.005", thread diameter of 1.125" for good
    strength. Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  2. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here is picture of the falling block with a
    600NE in the feed trough. Work great
    chambered as a 3.5" 20 gauge, for
    20 gauge 3.5" brass and plastic cases also.

    Second picture is a 12GA FH case we made by
    epoxying on a 12 ga base cup onto a bmg brass
    case. Turned brass down .010" and pressed on base
    with epoxy in it and when set base is on good.Ed

    [​IMG]

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  3. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Another way that I put a 12ga rim on
    bmg case is to use the new Magtech brass
    12ga cases made by CBC in Brazil.
    BPI and others sell them for less than
    a buck each. Being so short they aren't
    in the 12ga FH category of generating power.
    But you cut them off a quarter inch long, and
    turn a BMG rim down to .715 diameter, push on the
    Magtech base, with JB weld in the Magteck
    base, and set up a squeeze collet to
    crimp the Magtech base sides into the BMG
    extractor groove. Crimp it in hard and tight.
    And it uses large rifle primers.Fed Mag 215 best.
    Other bmg case work needed is to put a chamfer
    on the bmg primer pocket and drill out the
    bmg primer pocket straight so that there is no
    block to the primer gases coming out through the
    Magtech flash hole. Chamfer back of rim a little.
    These will handle
    20,000 psi loads.Ed
     
  4. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here is picture of Brett Ittel's Savage 210 he has setup.
    It has a 3.5" 12ga chamber in a heavy 27" Pacnor barrel,
    that he put in place of original. He also put in a Knoxx
    spring/cam recoil absorbing butt plate in the hollow
    Savage plastic stock. He replace the plastic parts of the
    absorber with aluminum parts. It is shown without the boot
    so you can see how it is in the butt.He also has an oversize
    pad on it. He hasn't weighted the gun with anything else and
    it shoots comfortable, even off the bench with loads that get
    a 500gr slug in a BPI sabot over 3000 fps. He gets this speed
    with BPI and 500 gr in 3.5" plastic cases. He also can use
    3.5" RMC cases and our BMG based case, cut to 3.5"...Ed

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  5. james

    james Member

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    Hello Sir,
    You're an expert when it comes to drillings, and if i may, I would like to ask you a couple of questions.

    i am looking at a couple of drillings and i am trying to understand the calibers of the riffles.
    it seems like the 8mm mauser is a fine caliber and will take anything up to a boar.
    8x57jr
    however i cant seem to get much info on the 9.3x72
    what is this type of caliber? what can it be used for?
    i thought initially it was a bigger caliber for bigger game... but im not so sure and it seems that its 3x the cost of the mauser.

    both drillings are about the same age/german and in good condition with 16g doubles over the top.

    any information/advise you can send my way would be greatly appreciated.
    thanks for your time.
    cheers
    james
     
  6. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    The 9.3 x 72 is about equivalent in power to 375 H&H.
    It is a metric caliber used a bit in the EU and
    some here like it. Think of it as a scaled up 8mm.

    Some 8ga work.I found a way and made a die that
    swages the 8ga kiln cases down to regular 8ga size.
    It swages the belt down and a turning tool I made
    removes the sharp edge on the belt after swaging,
    to make a smooth transition to the right size.
    It does it 4 times faster than previous process.
    My chamber on the NEF is set up so regular sizes fit
    and loaded kiln cases with the belt step won't go in.
    It works with both the REM 8ga cases from BPI and the
    WIN 8ga cases from Precision Reloading, and the
    WIN cases are only 44 bucks a hundred, primed.
    The WIN cases have the same extra powerful primer
    just like the REM cases. The REM cases are black
    and the WIN cases a see through plastic. Both same
    thick sides.Anyone needing cases worked over
    contact me... Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  7. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    A switch barrel auto we are testing 3.5" 12ga
    smoothbore USS-S slugs, with hopped up loads.
    About as accurate as the other guns here. Also
    I'm getting the auto set up in my 585 HE long
    case.585 HE long case shown in the port.
    Switching barrels only takes minutes. This 12ga
    barrel about as heavy as the 210 Savage barrel.
    It is originally a 3.5" 12ga autoloader I've reworked
    the stroke and have a barrel extension coming to add
    585 28" barrel. Gun is weighted, thick double pad.
    We are going to see how mild 585 HE loads of
    9,000 ft lbs work in autoloader.Ed

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  8. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Guys have asked about a 10ga FH, and it is just
    getting stuff to do cases with reasonable time and cost.
    So a breakthrough with a 10ga FH, is putting 10 gauge
    basecups from plastic cases onto 50cal Russian brass to
    make a 4.05" long 10ga. I expand case using my shellholder
    on original rim, put in bushing for shotgun primer, which
    fires off RE17, the turn case and rim a little, and slip
    on basecup with epoxy inside. Then take a 200 dollar heavy
    barrel NEF 10ga, and deepen chamber like mine is.
    Here is picture with one beside a 12ga FH. The 12ga FH holds
    max load of about 330 gr ball powder below a slug,
    and the 10ga FH holds 420gr. I'm getting things set
    to get a bunch of cases to do this. Progress.
    Now anyone wanting any of my cases for their collection
    I have a package of them all. Contact me.. ...Ed

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  9. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here is a neat idea for a 5 shot 12ga,
    a 12ga revolver. Nice looking gun.
    Also I found a company that would rebore 10ga
    NEF heavy barreled guns to 8ga, if they can
    get 5-6 guys lined up to do it, so that they can
    make tooling and charge less than
    300 bucks to do it. Delta Reboring.
    Let me know and we'll get arrangements made
    if enough are interested.I have two now.ED

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  10. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    The long brass 10GA FH case shown above has a Lyman
    slug in a thickwall 10ga steel shotcup that BPI sells.
    That's a 12ga 525gr Lyman.Makes nice lighter slug for 10ga.
    The slug has bottom chamfered to set in cup tight
    and a little epoxy makes it one piece that makes it a discarding
    sabot style like a SPW. That makes it front heavy so that it
    is as accurate as Brenekke KOs in smoothbore. I'm
    also working with a guys to cast long hollowbase 10ga slugs
    like the ones Federal loads. We are figuring out molds now,
    will probably make slugs about 850gr. Here is picture of
    my 10GA FH NEF with long brass case started in the chamber.
    Chamber is set for that 4.050" brass case and will shoot 3.5"
    plastic cases also. I am going to put on a thumbhole Survivor
    stock like I have on NEF 8ga we did.Ed



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  11. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    We talk about liking the use of heavier slug barrels
    in using our slow powder giving 1/3 faster loads
    in plastic cases, and handling recoil better. It is
    stiffer being heavy for an aid to accuracy.
    Guy out west has this heavy muzzled, Hastings, rifled
    barrel, for his REM 870. In first pic is a comparison to the
    original 870 barrel. It shows a muzzle as heavy as on
    a NEF Ultra Slug GUN. 2nd picture is the gun itself.
    That makes a neat slug gun..Ed

    [​IMG]

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  12. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    The heavy rifled barrel in previous post was made by
    Hastings for the Remington 870. It is 26" long and a
    muzzle diameter of over an inch. Hastings is gone now,
    but we'd like to find some of these barrels. The Hastings
    number of the barrel is 560H90.

    In the meantime Remington has come out with their
    SPS Super Magnum Slug Gun with 25.5" rifled barrel and
    a 1" diameter muzzle, with more solid barrel, and extra
    pins in mounting barrel, so a scope can be put on action. Ed

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  13. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    I am now putting a 3.5" 20ga on the FBW action.
    We are having RMC make 3.5" brass 20ga cases. I also
    bought a huge box of 3.5" plastic case Hastings
    hot rod sabot slugs at their out of business auction.
    Picture is of FBW with brass case in the feed trough.
    Any wanting to do 20 ga brass cases, at same time,
    contact RMC, they'd like to make a big batch this spring..
    I also got few of the cases to make the 10ga FH
    brass 4.050" long case. Anyone wanting one. I'll part
    with them, but I'll only will have a few. The brass is hard
    to find and costly.. Ed

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  14. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    I get asked about presses used for big cases.
    Here is a picture of my 2 big presses on
    the heavy bench, with the case spinner/lathe
    on the back of the bench. Blue one is a Walnut
    Hill and the green is beefed up Ammomaster.
    Both are braced so I can lean on them.Bench is
    braced to wall supports and benches behind.

    You can see the expanders laid out on the press
    brace arms, and a whole bunch of shorty dies laid
    out, that fit everything from 10ga down to
    my 700HE. And variety of large cases and real large
    4ga-8ga dies, parts I work with. On the right is a
    stack of my 585HE dies in the die boxes.Ed

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  15. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Now might get real exciting load developement wise,
    If we could make brass cases as long as the paper
    one on the right. In picture is 3.5" 10ga plastic
    case, our 10GA FH brass 4.05" case I made by putting
    a 10ga basecup on 50cal Russian brass, and third
    a 6" long 10ga bomb disposal case used to shoot
    liquid/gel in to bomb packages, I think.
    Anyone knows for sure let me know.ED

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  16. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here is picture showing surplus 50 Russian case before
    and the 10ga brass case we make using it with
    10ga bases pressed and epoxied on and expanding
    case out straight, making the 4.050" long
    10ga case.Makes a great 10ga FH.
    And the case isn't weakened any, by the
    process of putting on the rim.It will
    stand any pressures any gun could...ED

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  17. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    We have put 4 different cartridges in the Savage 210
    bolt guns. We added various 12ga and .700"
    heavy thick barrels.
    The first was our 12ga FH long case.
    The second was my 700H 3.25" belted case.
    Third was the 3.5" 12ga that Bret did, and
    fourth is the 700NE that we wanted to see
    how it works. It shoots fine, has weighted stock,
    and a 27 inch barrel.Has a double thick pad.
    I even have cast slugs for 700.
    Cases are expensive, ones in picture are
    20 bucks each...Ed

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  18. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here is picture of my Mossy 695 that has heavy barrel for
    the our long 12ga cases, in fact it chambers the 12ga
    belted shown in picture ok that I use for testing.
    I set chamber to do belted as well as rimmed.

    Second picture is some of my 585 Short HE cases, that work
    great in regular length actions.We have these in Ruger,
    Enfields, Mausers already. I have available supply of
    brass for these of about 8-9000. Ed

    [​IMG]

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  19. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Getting to some more 4ga/bore work.With barrel and
    falling block action locked down fired off some blank
    type loads to test the breach and firing pin I set up.
    I fired it by hitting the back of firing pin with a rod,
    as I now have get hammer and trigger setup. Firing pin
    dents primers ok, breach works and headspace is ok.

    For loads I have wads to take up space above powder.
    Others with same 4ga case in doubles fill case about
    1/6 full of Blue Dot (110gr), with 2000gr slug.

    I'll use 1600 gr hollowbase slugs, with about 1/3 of a case
    of IMR 4759 or 1/2 to 5/8 case of RE17, rest filled
    with fiber wads.These are shotgun primer loads and I will be
    using THE STRONGER PRIMERS OF KILN CASES at about same
    price as BMG primers. And I have BMG primer cases also
    that I will test also, once gun is finished in a few weeks.Ed
     
  20. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Fired 4bore with 760 gr light round ball with
    fiber wads under it, using 150gr Blue Dot
    and shotgun primer case. Just starting loads
    for testing operation. Hardly no recoil,
    like a heavy, beefed up blank load,
    could go much higher with that light
    of round ball. Will have pics of the muzzle
    blast and the gun shooting from the side,
    using heavier slugs in a week or so.
    In Owen's 4bore double,that uses same case
    size they use max of 110gr of Blue Dot
    with 2000 gr slug. Ed

    [​IMG]