Featured 12GA FH to 700HE--Hairy rifle/shotguns-

Discussion in 'Rifle Talk' started by hubel458, Jul 6, 2008.

  1. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    We get asked about finned slugs for
    12ga smooth bores and if they take high
    speed. Well they'll do just as good at high
    speed as the locked on wad stablized Brenekkee
    OK slug I tested in my smoothbore 1887 with long
    barrel, in first pic. Second pic is a Corbin
    finned slug I will get and test later. Third is
    BPI AQ slug I will test, few weeks in the 87.
    I'm going to test also in a regular smooth bore
    12ga slug barrel of medium muzzle size,
    about .92" diameter like the Savage 210 barrel.
    One gun I found with decent size diameter are
    some of Stevens smoothbores..Ed

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  2. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here is picture of the Mauser GEHA shotgun I
    setup with an Savage 210 rifled barrel. Used a Savage
    plastic stock also. It is setup with the original 3"
    chamber. I have many guys who want ideas and slug/load
    combination's tested in regular rifled slug barrels, so
    this is the one. Most testing will be 3" plastic cases.
    Barrel 24" long, .93" regular slug size muzzle diameter.
    The GEHA was originally converted from 98 Mausers in
    Germany in the 20s, to 12ga by reaming outl the front lug seats
    and using the rear safety lug. I added a second rear
    bearing lug and it handles 15,000 psi loads ok.
    The cases come out with the weight of the bolt.
    That will be max pressure used in it, with that slug gun
    barrel thickness. Example load is 115gr of RE17 in 3"
    plastic case, with 520 gr Lyman cast slug at 1850 plus fps.
    This load expands the plastic case base cups about .005",
    in comparison, a REM factory Buckhammer and other super
    mag turkey and goose loads expands .010".
    And we have over 300 fps more velocity.Ed

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  3. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Testing some .660" diameter 630 gr hard cast
    slugs in the red WIN wadcup in 3.5" plastic
    case. Tested in rifled long barrel in 12ga
    NEF about 2100 fps. Greg Sappington makes
    these. They are hollow point. 3" group at
    50yds, peep sight, bad eyes. I also fired
    a couple to see if they'd work in my long
    brass cased 16GA FH shown in the picture.
    They work ok, so Greg has a double duty
    slug.They'd work in 16ga plastic also.
    The 16ga was held at 1500 as the barrel
    isn't heavy, on Stevens/Revelation 16ga. Ed

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  4. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Comparing brass cases.I tell folks who are stepping
    up in 12ga power from 3.5 plastic, you can get 3.5" brass cases
    from Rocky Mtn Cartridge. Here you can see how heavy
    and nice they are compared to regular brass cases.
    They also make shorter 3" brass cases also.
    They fit the chamber tight and are long enough to
    get some serious thumping power.And they have a
    super strong, thick , solid head, not a weak balloon head
    like regular ones on the left in pic.Ed

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  5. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Tested my 499HE in a NEF. Loads I didn't have to
    full length resize the case, only top 1/4 of case.
    325gr at 2600, 500gr at 2150.
    In NEF got both weight bullets 300 fps faster,
    still extracted very easy.I got reamer. Just run it
    in NEF 500 chamber and you got a blaster. And add
    a little weight and thick pad to the gun.I have
    a barrel ring to hold forearm along with original
    bolt, as I added weight there as well as the butt.Ed

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  6. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Finally an 870 with longer 1" muzzle barrel. Barrel
    is heavier than most all add on pump gun barrels,
    and it is 25.5" long, Something that would really get
    it on with the slower powder loads we have.
    Rifled barrel is solid mount in receiver, scoperail solid mount.

    It is the REM 870 Super Slug Gun.
    Nice long heavy barrel, and thumbhole stock for
    handling recoil better. Plastic case 3" slug loads of ours that
    gets 600gr slugs to 1800-1900 fps, work great in this
    Like the ones I load and roll crimp in second picture
    that are setting behind the little vise, and the one in the
    vise ready to be crimped...Ed

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  7. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here is a novel slug idea, hard plastic support ring on
    the front, and a locked base ring/seal. Metal never
    touches the bores. Work in great rifled and good in
    smooth barrels. These are steel, lead/copper would do
    great also.Could be made heavier and different points.
    Flat point shown would do great damage to game.
    On the net- ammunitiontogo.com
    This one is about 500 gr.

    Second picture is the 499HE to use in redoing the 500S&W,
    shown on the also, in single shots, etc,for those wanting
    much more power at 40-50% lower pressures.Ed

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  8. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Some more testing with RE17 powder. I used it in 2.75",
    3", 3.5" 12ga plastic, 3.5 and 3.85" brass. I like it the
    best of all, as well as the real slow powders in our
    long case with BMG primer.
    Following tested in Savage-max pressure 35k psi.
    I took couple of our first made 3.85" BMG based
    long cases and bushed them back to use shotgun primers
    to fire off the RE17. Works great, with 715gr jacketed slug
    and 220 gr RE17 getting 2700 . With 420 gr slug in
    BPI sabot with 250 gr RE17 getting 3200 plus.
    Following tested in NEF-max pressure 25k psi.
    Using 3.5" MRC brass, 715gr jkt and 200gr RE17, got 2500.
    420 gr in BPI sabot and 220 gr Re17, got 2900 fps.
    And we get real good velocities in plastic with half the
    basecup expansion of factory mag loads.So that solves
    problem-IE, being able to use regular firing mechanisms and
    shotgun primers, with large enough powder charges to
    get hairy velocities at mag shotgun pressures in plastic
    and higher in brass cases with heavy barrels.A good powder
    for plastic and brass loads.
    I see now that Lightfield Co has the Commander 3.5" Plus
    slug loads with 600gr at 1900, probably in a test barrel.
    But that is great- nice, as it seems we're being copied!!!ED
     
  9. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    So many guys want 12ga sabot type slugs to reload their own.
    Here is an interesting combination slug available in Europe
    and they are working to get distributors/stores here.
    Any interested stores and shops contact them. We need
    many sources of saboted slugs for reloading. The sabot
    petals discards completely as slug exits muzzle and locked
    on base stays with slug, making it nose heavy so it will give
    decent accuracy in smooth bores.Will work in rifled barrels
    also. Slug is .629" diameter, comes in 570gr, 700gr, 970gr
    weights. They're selling these reloader/other loaders only.
    It is called the US-S slug, and their site is
    europeancartridgeunlimited.com ..Ed

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  10. freezito

    freezito Member

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    all i can say is wow
     
  11. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    The company kindly gave me few US-S slugs to test at high speeds.
    I had helped him test another slug a while back.
    He sent me some each of the US-S 570 gr, 700 gr, 970 gr.
    I tested the 570 gr so far and in 3.5" plastic case in the 1887
    smoothbore 35" barrel and in the NEF rifled 36" barrel at
    1900 fps. I got that with 130gr of RE17 with one BPGS
    seal under the sabot on the slug. The bottom of the sabot seal
    is exactly like a BPGS, so a BPGS added gives double sealing.
    Both smooth and rifled gave 3 shot 3" group each at 50 yds with
    peep sights and bad eyes. This slug does as good as advertized
    in smooth barrels, and smooth accuracy is as good as rifled.
    My smooth barrel is tight, measuring 723" at muzzle.
    These should be a great deer and hog slug. Folks need to
    ask their dealers to work to import these for them
    to have what seems a good slug to reload...

    On another note we may have found a guy who is gearing up
    to make 10 ga rifled barrels. I'll know later this winter
    If so I will put one on a bolt action and use the 4.1" long
    10GA FH case I made or get some like it from RMC..Ed
     
  12. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here is picture of the US-S slugs in a lineup
    with other 12ga slugs I'm testing. Lefteris was
    kind enough to send me a few of each weight
    to test. They are the 3 in second row on the right.
    They are 570gr, 700 gr, 970 gr. I tested 570gr in
    3.5" plastic so far. At 1900 in the NEF rifled, and
    in the 1887 smooth barrel, got 3" group on both.
    With peep sights an bad eyes.So the US-S slug
    is great in smoothbores, as good as rifled. My
    smoothbore on the 1887 is .723" bore at muzzle,
    a nice tight fit for smooth slugs. The smooth
    bores Lefteris tested them with are .722" muzzle,
    and they've already killed 5 wild boars, one shot
    kills with the 570gr slug. Also if anyone wants a
    heavy smoothbore new 12ga barrel, .722" muzzle,
    1.375" outside diameter to make a great slug
    gun with slugs like these, and others like the
    Brenekkes, I have spare one. The US-S slugs
    are smoothbore accurate in my 87 like the
    Brenekke KOs.In the picture the left two cases
    are 3.5" Fiocchi with the Fiocchi magnum primers.
    I compared that primer to the REM 209 primer and
    it has about the same strength.Next two are FED 3.5".
    then 2 12GA FH 3.85" cases, then 3.5" RMC brass, then
    3" RMC brass, the 2 WIN 3.5", then 2 REM 3.5".ED

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  13. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    I got the 700H 3.25 case feeding from the magazine I set
    up on the Montana Rifle Co PH action. It is singlestack with
    feed lips similiar to 12ga shotgun clip style magazines I
    had here. Works great, shown in first picture. Now it is longer
    than regular 12ga mags, but same setup would do for feeding
    long brass 12GA FH and long MRC 12ga cases. The
    700H 3.25 is 3.9 inches overall loaded length. In picture
    case is ready to clear the mag lips, then rim pops up under
    extracter as bolt is moving forward. Second picture is
    the box used that I made out of two PH boxes. That allowed
    for extra height and fit for singlestack and riveted together.
    Used a Savage 210 12ga follower and spring. ED

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  14. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    The 700gr US-S slug in smoothbore, at 2000
    in a 3.5" brass case, got a 2.5" 3 shot group
    at 50 yds. Great slugs they have come up with
    for smoothbores.
    Some of us talking about getting 10 ga rifled
    barrels made, here is a picture of my 4.1" long
    brass 10ga I made from 50cal Russian by putting
    on a rim like the 12GA FH is built.Just a prototype,
    third in picture. Later I'll get RMC to make some,
    as it is much easier way. First in picture is
    16GA FH 3.5" long, 2nd 12GA FH 3.85" long,
    3rd 10GA FH 3.1" long, 4th 8GA FH 4.3" long.Ed

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  15. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here is picture of the 12ga belted cases I made to
    test a few loads in. I made it from 55cal belted
    Boys case. I reduced belt diameter a little and left
    the base the same, which is 12ga size.In picture
    first is 55cal, second expanded to .620", third
    expanded to .660"(16ga), then two 12 ga ones.
    Next is our 12GA FH, and then a 12ga 3.5"
    plastic case.A little work in long 12ga FH chamber
    with a tool for belt step and it chambers. Ed

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  16. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here is a picture of US-S brass slug after going through
    3 foot of wood slabs in a bundle. It has shed its plastic
    base and it went through straight without tumbling.
    This one is 570 gr fired at 2200 in RMC case, from NEF.
    Also in picture is one with white sabot petals off, as it
    would be in flight, before hitting target.Ed

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  17. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    4bore work. Working on design of firing pin,
    and waiting for parts now. Problem is getting
    real small parts without CNC for bushed
    firing pin with rebound spring. But it takes
    time.

    We will have swaged lead slugs
    in a little while as my barrel is smooth. They
    will be 1600gr hollowbase, when done,
    a hundred of them at least.
    Got wads and cards, shown in the picture with 4bore
    cases and slugs. And my 2bore case for comparison
    Also 12ga wads for comparison..Ed

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  18. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Our cartridge work and experimenting got a nice
    write up in # 470 Nov/Dec International Ammunition
    Journal. Page 10-11 by Zach Weighman, a
    cartridge collector and gun nut friend.

    Got a guy just figured out BMG case rim, and for a rim
    puts on 12ga high base cup from a plastic case. He turns
    base/rim of bmg case about .008" and use JB Kwik to hold
    it on. Pushes it on with press. He removes base cup with
    heat gun from plastic cases,

    He is using RE17, so shotgun primers will work, and he
    puts bushing in case for primer. Has bushing reamed so
    the primer pocket protrusion on the base cup goes up inside
    tight, as he pushes on the base cup. It'll fire ok and to size it
    do like I do, I push case into open top die, and push it
    back out from the top with a rod and hammer. That
    way the rim don't get bent up. He says it saves a lot of
    time not having to make rim pieces.

    We will have more info and pictures next few weeks.Ed
     
  19. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here is a picture of a BPI sabot with a BPI Flexseal I
    use on to it in place of the original cushion seal.
    I also cut shallow slots in the outside at the bottom
    of the petals. Sabot opens much quicker and seems
    along with BPGS seals under it to work ok without
    damage, giving high velocities. In pic on left is regular
    BPI sabot, behind is one I put a cushion on from a
    Brenekke KO slug, and in front the one with Flexseal on.
    The slug in it is one a guy casts at 440 gr and .504"
    diameter, and works ok.

    New info on my 499HE, from now on we will make cases
    out of 450 #2 brass, as Jamisons has 3-4000 cases,
    and it seems no one has the 475 #2 we used first.
    Only slight case dimension change is the base .012"
    smaller, all else is the same. I'm getting reamers redone
    and will be able to use in couple weeks. Case will still have
    plenty of taper to extract easy in singles, doubles,
    falling blocks.etc.

    And speaking of falling blocks I found one, and put my 585HE
    in it, and it is big enough and has enough clearance to be used
    for a 577NE, 600NE, long 20ga, my long 16ga FH,
    the 700H, the 700HE. Cost no more than Ruger, with barrel
    figured in. Will have pics
    and info soon. Ed

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  20. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here is picture, Falling Block I found that I put
    my 585HE in. It didn't need any work on the
    feed trough to feed. 585 case shown in it.
    In fact the trough is big enough
    and the action big enough for 600NE, 3.5" 20ga
    brass, 3.5" 16ga FH brass, my 700 HE long case.
    I reworked a NEF stock to it, as I'm not
    a stockmaker.Nice action.2nd picture is
    of the 16GA FH in the feed trough.Ed

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