Featured 12GA FH to 700HE--Hairy rifle/shotguns-

Discussion in 'Rifle Talk' started by hubel458, Jul 6, 2008.

  1. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here is case measurements for our 416 HE target case
    made by necking our 585 HE big belted case.

    [​IMG]


    Here is picture of 375 HE left, 416 HE next, 416 HSM on the right..

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    Here, tentative specs, 416 HSM case we are doing from bmg brass,

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    A 375 HE, with Lawton action, few are being done with those,Ed .....

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  2. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here is recap simple setup to get faster loads with 12ga sabots

    & slugs, Example using break actions...., reaming chamber

    in a 12ga break action to 3.5" with a 3.5" 12ga reamer, that isn't

    something needing special order, and use 3.5" plastic cases , or

    get 3.5" brass cases made. With mag shotgun primers and

    our slower powder loads you can get a quarter more speed,

    which gives 50% more energy...


    585 Hubel Express video, 190ft/lbs recoil, heavy load, gun little light.....




    Another view of Asteroid Precision's.... 375 HE target gun,

    [​IMG]


    Here is our 416 HSM we are developing next to 416 Barrett, Ed

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  3. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    For big long cases our testing is showing that the 416 easier to get powders to work with, less problems ..
    Maybe building a target gun,don't have 375 barrel all ready, maybe go 416....

    We got cases, 416 HE and 416 HSM, as well as 375...
    CEB and others will have bullets...CEB will be doing .416 in 450gr, 475gr, 500gr, 525gr and 550gr

    Got sent 5 thick sided sample cases, same OD base as 585/375.416 cases, same belt, just .180" longer,
    did a 416 HE, chambered extra barrel , cases stick over 50k. They have about .042" total taper, .021" per
    side, when I necked couple to 416. That is a lot of taper , twice the taper of my 416HE...hanging up at 50k..

    I could maybe go to 65k with these if we made taper with ..012" - .016" more taper to each side, but that is
    no way to build target cases. I'd have to crunch down case shoulder diameter. And would look like 30-30.

    And crazy part is, the case has enough brass material to thin up sides and stretch them way out to 4 or
    more inches,, They weigh 150 gr more than our 585/375/416,, but with real thick sides they actually
    hold less than our 416 HE with thin sides, that is .180" shorter...Our case does 65k ok without sticking..

    And we can make super long 4" cases work if we had means to get them built, as we have
    15 powders slower than HBMG.Here is pic of thin and thick sided cases, sectioned for comparison.Ed..


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  4. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here is a drawing depicting the layout of thick and thin sided cases,
    like my 585/375/416 HE thin sided ones and the thick one in picture.

    And my 585 case is not perfect, as where it transitions from the
    heavier corner to the side it isn't gradual, so case separates there
    shortening case life. There are others made that way including brand X.
    The dotted line is what it should be............

    [​IMG]

    Others have sent cases to section and look at, that are built thick sided and they
    stick also for the folks, If a longer case with about 5 sq in of side surface sticks and
    don't spring back, the coefficient of friction is about .01 then the pull needed to move
    it is 2500-3500 lbs..That is for big cases with normal amount of slant to the sides.

    Here is picture of six nyati and gibbs size cases sectioned.. the5th one is present 585 HE
    and 6th is thick sided version. 1st 600 OK which essentially nyati basic case left straight, belt added

    [​IMG]

    In the picture the nyati gma is one we built most of our first 585s on. Before we had factory run.
    Reworking made it in size that is my 585 HE, but that brass had the sides of perfect thickness,
    not too thick, but thin without sharp transition my new factory 585s had, they last forever as 585s......

    Fourth one is an older nyati case I used to make about 10 of my 585s from,had thin sides, heavy corner
    and sharp transition from the corner, tested 20 years ago, and they would separate after 4-6 hot loads
    as 585s, my factory 585 with right powders, as a 585 will get 10 hot loads, and necked down to
    416/375 4- 6 hot loads, right powders used, Moderate 577 equivalent, factory 585 at least 20 loads..Ed.
     
  5. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Guy sent thick sided 375 case, next size base diameter up from Nyati.He said,
    'Yes I ran them in a ___________ rifle built by ____, the best I
    could get was 44000 psi, any more and they were stuck''

    Big bore guys. other forums over the years related that trex/african case in 585
    size, thick sided cases, stuck when they loaded them over 45k psi.

    Another just sent us, thick sided 375, long case, same base OD as our 585 HE,
    416 HE, 375 HE, and Mitch's 375 Lethal, and the thick ones stuck over 45k psi.

    Now you can fill those cases up, with ultra slow enough powder so they won't
    stick, but powder is too slow for max speed. Might get a little more
    speed, with thick sides case, but case got to be 4- 4.5 inches long..

    . Anyone needing a sectioned case of the ones I made the first of my 585s from,
    contact me, if they want to get a general idea of what case side thickness should
    be, in Gibbs size cases on up to about trex and 375 VM size case diameter.

    Here is pic of our 585 based case next to brand X and thick ones, both have
    same sharp, thinner, corner, where transition from heavy angled corner, to the
    side, the carbide draw rod could easily be reshaped with diamond wheel,
    just by grinding off sharp transition corner. Then sides would be perfect.., .

    [​IMG]


    Here is picture of 416 HE in a Choate target/varmint stock guy is doing,
    using long action BSA U9 action.Setting in stock ready to do bedding..Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  6. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here is picture of thick 375 case sent to me, with thick sided trex case, and our HE case,
    The thick 375 case is .050" bigger OD base, but inside is no bigger than HE cases..
    These thick sided 375s stuck for the guy using them, when loaded over 44,000 psi....

    [​IMG]

    Got guys asking and doing it, to do 416 HSM case for BMG actions, so leaving rim same,
    as the original bmg rim, so will neck them, fire form to the longer shoulder, like the others.
    Base a little bigger, Shoulder same diameter, same 30 degree slant, neck will be same..

    Inside of case still has close to same shape, volumne within 3 % as ones we slimmed down more.
    Some want to use bmg actions and can't wait for intermediate actions, or already have bmg action.
    And they are really getting interested in the complete line of 416 CEB bullets now being done
    clear up to 550 gr...

    So there will be 3 versions, one for actions .750" bolt, one for .800-.850" bolt,
    And one for bigger bmg bolts. The ones for BMG called 416 HSM2 ..

    Here is 416 HSM guy working in a Montana PH, in a heavy thumbhole target stock. Ed


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  7. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

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    Here is sectioned 585 HE case in the middle, we first made from

    another case, years ago before we had factory run of brass and

    it had perfect thickness on the sides and inside corrner.

    We could fire them many times without sides thinning..

    First case is factory run of our 585 HE, 3rd is case that is too

    thick of sides and sticks at high pressures..

    [​IMG]

    Pic of our factory run cases necked down to 375 and fired 4 times

    at high pressure on the right, with unfired case on the left.

    Our case is not perfect but does work...Ed

    [​IMG]