Featured 12GA FH to 700HE--Hairy rifle/shotguns-

Discussion in 'Rifle Talk' started by hubel458, Jul 6, 2008.

  1. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Here is picture of 375 Warlord next to our 585 case he made it from.
    He is going to make couple later necked down to 416, and 458.
    There is another guy working on doing one necked down to 357 wildcat.

    [​IMG]

    Here is a picture of our poster Biebs on AR, 585 HE, in a MPI stock.
    He used a big Enfield action, with a fancy jeweled bolt.

    [​IMG]

    We found couple other big actions for our 585, that can even feed really
    long overall length loaded cases, like 4.5" long or more, if you are
    using long pointed bullets for real long range target and hunting work.
    One is Lawton 8000 Cheytac action, and the other is Stiller Cheytac actions
    made similar, just a newer version. Both actions come in 1.45" diameter
    and a 1.60" diameter receivers.

    And Vestals Gunsmithing in Virginia does great work, decent prices, has
    these actions and will build you fancy 585 HEs. .. He has, working with
    another guys mag box setup, setup an extra long, good working, single
    stack, center feed, magazine..He has one of our 585 HE reamers on hand,
    we have barrels, cases, and reloading dies..Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  2. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Here we kill two birds with one stone so to speak,

    Best case sizer is the MEC Collet Super Sizer and it can double
    as a case holder when we roll crimp. Much better hold than
    the ones made to hold cases for crimping, that cost a lot.
    Save cost of a holder, plus have best sizer around

    [​IMG]

    Here is couple different setups our guys checking for our 585HE
    in a long, Lawton Cheytac action. First laminated thumbhole stock.
    Second in a Hogue Compstock. The action can mount a scope rail
    like shown on the table in 1st picture or a receiver sight in 2nd picture.
    The scope rail is a piccatiny type.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The stocks used were wide ones for REM long actions, just add recoil
    block ahead of recoil inleting for the longer action, drill new screw hole
    Open the stock forward to original bolt hole for longer cases and mag.

    About Enfields for our case, one of my favorites, Some don't like the
    sporterizing, welding bottom metal straight. Many think straightening
    is a huge job needing special jigs. Easier just use one being added on for a jig
    with a bolt, to weld on the straight extension, Do top weld, then cut old
    extension that is under off with a thin cutting wheel, then weld bottom.
    When we bolt the short piece on the one we are straightening, we grind
    the short slant off so the added piece lays on there flat.
    The one you cut off can be used as the top extension for the next one!!!
    Just keep on building...Ed

    [​IMG]
     

  3. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Here is a fancy stocked 24ga FH built on a NEF, built by
    a guy in Canada. Its straight back, high comb
    stock, handles recoil great.Neat looking work... Ed

    [​IMG]


    About our 2.17" 585 BB case for lever guns, pistols, etc,.
    It is made from our 585 case cut back to 2.17" long.
    With loaded length of about 2.8" work in lever guns, etc.
    Work in 71s, later 1886s, Henry steel frames made for 45-70.
    One guy is putting one in single shot action set up with
    Contender style pistol grip for testing in long rifle barrel,
    to simulate pistol recoil..Be very brisk recoil in a case
    that holds 110 gr powder under a light Minie bullet.
    Maybe work in a Rossi Judge with heavy barrel.
    Or rolling block rifles and pistols...Gonna try one in 1887.
    Got first one in one of our guys Greener GP for testing..

    In some ways big bore shotguns and rifles are sexy.
    By looking at the shape of the fire and smoke cloud....
    Thanks for picture, to the great NitroExpress Forums site.


    [​IMG]

    Here is picture of another neat sporterizing deal for Enfields.
    On those without rear bridge pocket welded up, we just mill down
    and shape it so debth of the pocket matches bottom section of
    weaver rail and screw or epoxy it in. Shape to drive in hole tight.
    Can use as a rear scope ring mount or mount for peep sight
    like a compact UTG sight...Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  4. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Here is a picture from the back, of a big Lawton action that
    our 585HE fits in nice. Scope rail on there is tapered
    for long range shooting.

    [​IMG]

    Here is what our wildcatter buddy is making from our
    585HE brass to see how they look and experiment with.
    He is getting reamers, dies, and gun setup first for the 375.


    [​IMG]
     
  5. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    A poster reading our threads said '' I'm slowly becoming a recoilapheliac''..
    That is neat term , and very glad that folks are catching the big bore fever.

    Here is a simple, yet neat peep sight we can use on the rear sporterized
    bridges of Enfields, works on other rear bridges also.Including shotguns.
    I like peep sights the best for most shooting. They also come with flat
    bottoms also for bridges and receivers that are flat on top.

    [​IMG]

    Another picture of the 585 HE one of our guys put in the MPI stock..

    [​IMG]

    Here is another pic of our guys 24ga FH in the NEF

    [​IMG]


    On straight sided cases like our 585 HE the die set has a mouth expander
    die to make it easy to insert bullets. The die flares the mouth, but I always
    felt that doing what is really a relative relatively sharp flare, and then the slight
    roll crimping the same area of the case into a groove on the
    bullet or slug, shortens case life.

    So I just use expander plug out of the die, by hand, using just the bottom of
    of the expander plug and just push it in a little, wobble it around a small
    amount, bullet goes in ok, case mouths last longer, good for dozens of loads,
    with moderate hunting and target loads.Only takes a few seconds and less
    work that has to be done in the press ... Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  6. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Here is picture of a hard plastic molded shotgun case, holding
    a slug, without crimping, a company is experimenting with.
    This one with light slug supposed to do over 2000 fps.

    [​IMG]


    Here is video by Corlanes Sporting, Dawson Creek, BC, CAN.
    Known as, Rocky Mtn Rifles, video on Youtube of them testing our
    585 HE in a barreled action, they are building for a guy. They are
    shooting it into their big bullet trap with test load..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vzQjRGfT1A

    Allan and Grant Swan in Australia are building 585HE for a guy,
    the second they built. First one killed the buff pictured earlier .
    AHR and Vestals will make folks here in US a 585 HE.
    Here is another view of a Lawton action big enough for 585HE..

    [​IMG]


    Here is picture of Rossi SS with 585 barrel mono-blocked into it,
    chambered for our 585 BB 2.17" case, to do testing in a light rifle
    with just pistol grip to simulate the case in pistols. Others going to
    put case in leverguns, autoloaders. We got plenty of cases Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  7. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Here is picture of a great old time 8bore double.
    I like those old outside hammer, big bore guns.

    [​IMG]

    The style of most break actions singles aren't the greatest, that we
    we used for 12ga FH, 10ga FH, other caliber barrels we mono-blocked
    in them like .585" bore for 585HE and 24ga FH.. One that is close
    that we have, is the Magtech.

    Well the guys have found one that is super strong lockup and looks
    real nice. And has the good quality look. It comes 12ga light shot barrel,
    soon be monoblocked to rifled 24ga FH, the little brother of the 585HE.

    We told company if they did them with NEF style, rifled, heavy slug barrel,
    for shotgun caliber only hunters, they couldn't make them fast enough.

    [​IMG]


    Here is picture of 585HE, In an Enfield that Bret and Darrel in Minn
    set up with great camo finish, with nice brake job. It is in a Hogue, recoil
    reducing, rubber coated, Compstock.Great job they did.. Ed

    [​IMG]

    Here is picture from the rear of the Enfield we mounted the short Weaver
    rail piece on. It is mounted in the sight pocket that the actions have;
    Can hold scope ring or a rear peep sight like UTG makes.. Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  8. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    We will have arrived when we have this big bore in our back yard,
    Kind of a neat suppressor,

    [​IMG]


    Here is folder shotgun, the guys set up as 24ga FH.
    Shoots nice, looks nice, it a more expensive break action,
    compared to many others.

    [​IMG]


    Here is another view of what we feel is a nearly perfect
    break action. Guy is making a strong 24ga FH with it.

    [​IMG]


    Here is picture of a 585HE MRC PH a guy set up..

    [​IMG]


    Here is picture of our shorter 585 BB for leverguns, etc, with
    variety of bullets..Can get energy like regular elephant guns..Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  9. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Here is a Midland break action a guy is doing in 24ga FH.

    [​IMG]

    Here is old catalog picture of different stuff used in old days
    for shotgun loads. Some would be hairy in brass cases

    [​IMG]

    Here is picture of a MN a guy is doing 585HE in..
    It is singleshot. Redid bolt handle, mounted it on the bolt
    further back, so the port could be lengthened for our long case.
    Also puts handle back where it is easier to grab.
    Needs, more shaping, polishing, blueing, scope rail added.

    [​IMG]

    Here is another picture of the 585HE with great looking stock.
    Nice looking wood. Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  10. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    There are guys on Castboolits forum experimenting with
    locking on plastic bases securely on slugs.
    Making their own front heavy ones for smoothbores.

    Here is picture of our 585BB case next to long 585HE.

    [​IMG]


    Here is another view of the great camo job on the
    585HE Enfield, a top view. Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  11. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Here is a helix driver seal we made by cutting base from helix driver

    wadcup, good for fullbore roundballs that are too big to go in cup.

    Best one to cut off is shortest `12ga one BPI has.


    [​IMG]



    Here is picture of a 585HE made on a Stiller bolt action for guy in Canada.

    It was made for the poster Spooksar on Africa Hunting and Accuratereloading,

    by Corlanes/Rocky Mountain rifles, in Dawson Creek BC Canada, with a

    Stiller action, Timney trigger. the stock is a blue/grey laminate. He imported

    the barrel, cases, dies, etc.. from us, through Prophet River in Lloydminster AB.


    [​IMG]



    That action similar to Lawton we had and neighbor got, that won the King Of The

    2 Mile shoot at Whittington, with the 375 Lethal cartridge the neighbor made,

    from our 585 brass. Made it full length case,.. It is big one on the right.

    He made an 18 lb gun with McMillan target stock, a huge scope, tripod..

    Nice thing is we don't need BMG action.ED


    [​IMG]
     
  12. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Fellow big bore nut, Nathan Vale in AUS, has worked with

    Bertram and got the run of full length 12ga From Hell cases done.

    Drawn 12ga long cases as strong as BMG brass with unbreakable rims.

    Any wanting to get some, contact Bertram at the email -----

    b.bertram1@bigpond.com ......





    Some more on wildcat 375 Lethal Cartridge and Mitchell Fitzpatrick's win.......

    .375 Lethal Precision Arms LLC rifle shooting prototype solid 400gr Berger bullets.

    Mitchell built this rifle himself using a McMillan A5 Super Mag stock, Rock Creek barrel,

    Nightforce ATACR MOA scope, Phoenix Precision Bipod, and a Lethal Precision Arms

    muzzle brake. Lawton Action. Lethal Precision his own gunsmith shop, will make

    these target rifles for anyone into target shooting and long range hunting..


    Remarkably, Mitchell nailed first- and second- shot hits at the 2477-yard target,

    a full 1.4 miles away. It is windy out there, makes shooting hard with a time limit.

    The prototype 400 grain Berger Bullets solid performed great, (G7 BC of 0.56 at 3000 fps).



    [​IMG]


    Here is 585 HE in an Enfield, in a Choate Heavy Varmint Stock. These are super strong.

    The butts of these can easily be weighted. Couple guys doing them....... Ed


    [​IMG]
     
  13. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Here is a picture of the 12ga FH brass case that Nathan

    Vale had Bertrams make. Next to short plastic case.

    [​IMG]


    Here is a picture of our 585BB headstamp. Perfect lettering

    for our case as it came from production line,.

    [​IMG]


    I like Hogue stocks, but they aren't made for singleshots.

    We use singleshots for our 12ga FH and 585HE.

    Here is picture of a NEF we set up for 24ga FH and we adapted

    a Hogue 1300 Winchester Hogue to it. Looks a lot better, and

    handles recoil easier than factory, Butt hollow, easy to add weight,


    [​IMG]


    Here is picture of 585 case in the Lawton bolt, and the wildcat

    375s and others made from our cases, work in bolt also. Ed


    [​IMG]
     
  14. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Our friend Brian from the far north went to Africa with his 24ga FH he did in
    a NEF break action and got 3 nice buffs with it. Good job.


    Our 585HE, 700HE and the great 12ga FH are now in the new COTW book
    published in Oct, now out for sale,

    [​IMG]


    We now have our target 375 HE cartridge, made by necking down our 585 HE.
    The others couldn't make enough 375s, so we started our own. It has different
    shoulder taper, length, neck length, improved over the others...Got a bunch
    guys doing it, most into the 2 mile shooting venues, We're making cases,
    testing, reamer prints at reamer guys, we are getting guys going. The 2 mile
    shoot last year really got the interest booming for 375 necked from our case,

    Here's how, size and seat 375 HE, one simple die, a 1" die, no huge dies needed
    A die we can make with resize reamer from reamer guy, a regular die body,then
    pass on to the next guy, one reamer can make whole bunch of dies for folks.

    I do primer work separate, not in the press. SO First with lock ring set, I size cases.

    When coming back out of dies with case, we notice the case still well centered,
    held straight, when it is down as far as the length of the 375 HE neck... IE
    the sides and shoulder corner still supported tight.

    So we put washer or another lock ring on, same thickness as neck length,
    below original lock ring, screw down tight tight in press,

    Dies had a 5/8 x 24 thread in top, had powder fill bushing and other stuff same thread,
    reamed out from bottom to set bullet height, with ram, case,and bullet up,

    After priming, loading in the powder charge, we carefully start(boat tail makes it easy)
    bullet in case by hand, slide up in die, into holder, raise ram to to top, bullet seated
    perfect. Die can have different thread in top as long as big enough to hold seating
    bushing of some kind , that can be made from many items.

    These target bullets held in by strong neck tension, no crimping needed, and notice
    bullet point will get no marks or dents, fast, easy, no 380-500 buck special dies.
    Bushing centering bullet on ogive is very accurate.

    OVER 900 375HE cases piled behind presses getting done. About 600 on another
    bench nearly ready. Small batches in shelves.And we will do more.

    All 375 info, prints, specs, pictures, load data, etc, is public domain, worldwide,
    for any target, hunting, etc, use..Ed


    [​IMG]
     
  15. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Here is picture of one of 3 buffs our guy from Canada got in

    Africa with our 24ga FH he did on a NEF, in 2nd picture


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    Here is the neck die setup, with insert stems/plugs for the top that

    are set in .020" steps to make our 375 HEs shown behind

    from our 585HE cases. 900 cases behind and 600 on

    another bench, mostly done, and 600 started elsewhere,

    We also made a hydraulic form die, 375 HE test gun, starting with

    lighter bullets, for example got 340 gr to 3700,

    Will test up to 400gr We will find top speeds and powders needed

    to get that, and have info where to get powders. Reamer prints are

    at reamer guys, all prints and info is public domain... Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  16. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Picture of fellows at Vestals Gunsmithing test firing 585 HE

    they built for a guy. They got 750 gr to almost 2800 from

    ultra short barrel, not a full load . A regular barrel would be

    over 2900, 14000 ft lbs with full load..

    [​IMG]



    Picture of our 375 HE cases, with little 378 WEA on left.

    Middle case is with 330 gr, right case is 400gr bullet.

    [​IMG]


    Here is picture of out 375HE testgun, in heavy t-hole stock.

    So far 340 gr to 3700 and 360gr 3600.

    [​IMG]


    Next 416 HE target case, these run through the hydro-die,

    test gun done,will complete testing soon, to confirm specs.

    When specs set, info will be sent to reamer guys

    Soon will have 408 HE with specs set up also, for guys,

    Smaller case 416s and 408s can be reamed out for

    our bigger case .Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  17. hubel458

    hubel458 Super Member

    210
    0
    16
    Guys asking about strong economical bolt gun to use for 28ga and
    410 ga and 32ga with brass cases and higher pressures than plastic cases.
    They can use a MN bolt action, here is pic of one with
    our 585 case in the action.Guys can get Magtech brass cases or have
    RMC make them....Guys can make 32ga case from 500 NE,
    410s from 9.3 x 74 brass, etc..

    [​IMG]

    Here is picture of our 416 HSM case sectioned next to original
    BMG case on the right sectioned, to show that we still have
    enough thickness in the sides to handle high pressure,
    in a case with 310 gr capacity..We are getting the wildcatting
    work set up so we can do at least hundred a month.
    We have lots of 585s, 375HEs, 416 HEs, 408 HEs.....
    And working toward getting 416 HSMs in big numbers.

    [​IMG]

    Here's comparison of 416 target cases, 1st 416 HE, have whole bunch.
    Second is model of what I'd have made on medium machine, if I could,
    the 416 HE Long. It has capacity of 230gr..
    Third is our 416 HSM which we are working on making by wildcatting bmg
    cases, And if had run long cases, make longer 375 HE necking down 416 ..

    [​IMG]


    Bryan Litz just recently shot 3 shot group at 2 miles using Paul
    Phillips heavy barreled, target rifle built by Lethal Precision in
    375 Lethal Mag(585HE necked down, very similiar to 375HE )...
    It grouped 17.5 inches tall by 22 inches wide.

    Applied Ballistics shooter Mitch Fitzpatrick just hit 3 of 5 at 3520 yards,
    weekend 10-13th at Valdina Ranch , west of San Antonio.
    Also used the 375 LM case similar to our 375 HE
    Great shooting at the 2017 World's Longest Shot Challenge. Ed